But uh other than the Kiku, we also had our first prototype of ELO uh which is the continuous oscultation during pregnancy. Uh and we actually had this first prototype while I was pregnant of my third daughter. Uh and I could hear her heartbeat which for me it was such a magical thing to be able to hear. Um I do think that in that last pregnancy because in that last pregnancy I was uh still I was working in the clinic. I was working in the ward. I was working on the NICU uh which I was every day confronted with women that came they didn't have any fetal movements and they had a bad CTG and they had a baby born

with a lot of complications and at the end of the day I was thinking that because you're so busy I did not feel my own baby move — and this is I think something that really sparked my idea of okay you know it's not how it has been many years ago that when you're pregnant you know women are at home and they can sit down and they can feel the baby. We are working. — Yeah. And when we are working it means that we are also very distracted and that means that we are not completely aware of when the baby is kicking or you know and me not knowing if she was still there

kicking and being live um really made me worried a lot because I was confronted with these women coming in with basically the same symptom and it's so difficult if you're working to uh realize if your baby is still moving. incorrectly. Yes or no? [Music]

— Cool. So, I think we're on. So, hello Diana and, you know, welcome to this new episode of Impulse. Um, I'm glad we could find, you know, the time for for the recording and and reconnect after we last saw each other um in Malta last year. Um, you know, funnily enough, the last recording I did was with Shvini from OxyWare, so with whom we were on the on the same panel during Meteek World. Um, I know you have, you know, a hard stop in in 45 minutes. So, I'll, you know, try to be brief on the introduction. I'll I'll just share that I'm, you know, very interesting, um, and curious about, you know, your journey

with Lapsy Health. um learning about how you guys leverage you know body sounds to improve diagnostics and um care management across you know broad range of conditions and you know what you guys are up to in the near future to the extent you know you can share so yeah before we go into the conversation you know and as I do with basically every episode I would just invite you to present yourself — well thank you it's also very nice to talk to you again since last time we spoke in Malta so my name is Diana Diana Fonstein. Um I'm a medical doctor. I am from the Netherlands. I have a PhD in

pediatrics and I work currently as well in pediatrics. Um and outside of that also have uh still right now in the face of a startup almost a scale up uh which is called Lapsy Health where I'm the co-founder but also the chief medical officer. — Super. So you know I've read in the preparation of the recording that you have so you mentioned you're a pedotician your your mother your startup or health tech startup co-founder then I also saw that you were you know former athlete as a swimmer in the in the Dutch national team. So I was just curious kind of like to understand a bit where you come from how these experiences in

you know sports and medicine have you know shaped your professional journey and you know led you to to um you know co-ound Lapsy Health in the end. — Yeah. Well, I I do think that all of these things really connect to each other. Um, so uh actually before I even got into medicine, I uh got into the national team of synchronized swimming, perform performed in European world championships, was actually training even to go to the Olympics. Um I always wonder thinking back did I get to that level because this is my character of persistence, not letting go, being a little bit of a perfectionist, you know? um or you know or did I become like this

because I was doing this sports no and it probably would be something in between um I entered medicine while I was still in the national team which was quite a challenge to combine um but I think that's also one of the you know uh topics of my life combining different worlds which um sometimes is difficult but I guess I do enjoy those uh those things to combine and and to challenge in that way. Uh I started medicine. I worked a little bit in pediat pediatrics because that's how it works here in the Netherlands. You start working after you become a general practitioner, you start working already in some type of

specialty. Um then I entered my PhD uh in pediatrics and uh that's also when I uh got my first two daughters during my PhD. uh after that I entered the residency and actually in between the little time of my PhD and uh the residency there was a little time spot in between and that's actually where we started to challenge ourselves to think about uh innovations and what we would like to do to change healthcare uh because I think uh coming from healthcare we see a lot of um trouble uh we see some things that really could uh benefit benefit from a great solution. Um, and looking from that angle, we really started to um to

challenge our brains and uh uh and to think about what would be the best solution. And actually started more from uh from the challenge that came from Jonathan uh who was also co-founder and CEO of Lapsy Health, which is also my husband, that he said, "But what would you do if you would like to change healthcare?" And that you know how if you're a couple, you can have this heated type of conversation. This is how this started. So I just got of course in a car drive because this is where you have the test discussions. So I actually started like well I would do something completely different. I would like to do

sound. I would like to empower patients because I really think that we can make a difference there. And that's actually you know when I get this heated this is where you challenge me and I start to have all these ideas and that's where the original idea of lapsy health actually originated. Um and I think there also you know the combination of um having the startup being a resident you know having two children and then along come number three which is my third daughter right now. Uh you know the combination of that all has been a big threat of topic in my in my life. Um

but I do think the challenges of the synchronized swimming working in a team uh you do not have to say half of a word and you already understand each other because you're really so close to each other and you know what you want. You have the same goal. You work towards it. Um you have failure, you have success. Uh and I think that is the same thing that you have in having your startup. You have your ups and downs. You do have that team feeling and you need to keep that team feeling. you need to be able to trust each other to, you know, overcome these challenges that you're going to have. And I think also in

medicine, it works the same, right? If I have a premature baby or a baby that is born that is having, you know, an unexpected bad start, I have a team around me and we have to do this together. And it's also how we know how to communicate to each other. We also need just half words, you know, half sentences, but we do need to have clear communication that everybody knows where we're at. uh and I think those things are very similar if you look at in all these aspects of sports in my life, medicine in my life but also having um uh the startup being an entrepreneur uh as we

are doing right now with a full team. Yeah, that's a great parallel. You know, I was so your studies when you were like studying medicine, did you when did you stop let's say the the the sports practice? Like what did you go until like you got the JP level and then during the specialty that's where you made them where you stopped or — Yeah. So here in the Netherlands you have this trunk that is uh all theory. Yeah. uh is about four years and after that you start to do an internship. Um and during that internship during the first part of medicine I could skip parts uh I could do exams later or you

know because I had to go abroad for competition — but when I was doing my internship I couldn't anymore and this was exactly the phase where we um had I think one year with not a lot of competition and then we would go again to world championships which I think was in Japan by that time and I was like or I put whole my whole studies my medicine career on hold for one year for one more competition. But at some point I knew I cannot continue with this. — Uh or I just decide this is the moment to stop. And I remember that still um you know the the swimming association

went to the university to talk to see if there was still something possible because they wanted to keep me in the team. Uh but unfortunately they were trying to find solutions. But for me, I think at this moment it was not worth uh to put my other career on hold, which would be more of my future career than being in synchron. Although I remember in one of the competitions there was certain and they were trying to recruit us. There was like a split second that I thought maybe but I didn't. — Really cool. Um so you mentioned you know in that car ride with your husband Jonathan that you know you were

imagining solutions that you know were focusing on sound and you know and in technology to address some some unmet needs that you had identified. Um can you share with us you know what were some of the maybe I guess there are like some applications directly in pediatrics maybe in other areas. Can you like if we without going yet into the you know how you went about you know creating the the solution and the products um can you explain us you know what's your role actually of like sound um you know in medicine so I think everybody knows about you know osteoscopes or like you know you go to a JP they put this device

on your heart they listen to you it's very like analog um but you know it's kind of like the only from a first you level of understanding that's the that's maybe the main application we would see. So I'd be curious to hear from you what yeah what's the role of sound in medicine in general. Yeah, I think it already exists for such a long time like this traditional stethoscope. I'm not sure if you know it started off with uh doctors just listening with the ear to the chest, — okay, — to try to capture some of the sounds. — Then this was a little bit uncomfortable especially there were a lot of male

doctors if there was a female patient to approach so closely. So they thought of rolling up a piece of paper to listen. Um, and then from that evolved this telescope, which is actually not that far, I think from the rolled up piece of paper because it is a rubber tube with just a membrane on the end to increase the acoustic sound. Uh, so you can hear a little bit better. Um, and this has stayed in medicine because I think it's such a crucial part to be able to listen to the body because the first thing that you do if you have a patient in front of you or if you go as a patient to the

doctor, you explain what your symptoms are, what your complaints are, what what you're worried about. And then the other thing is you as a doctor listen to all the symptoms in the story. You try to get these scenes together and you already have a little bit of a framework for yourself that you think it could be this, it could be that, it could be that. And in order to go from the story towards, okay, I want to do lab work, I want to do an X-ray or I do want to do something else, you need a little bit more of information. And that is the information that the body tells you.

That's not something that you as a patient can tell your doctor yourself, but those are the sounds that come from your body. And those sounds are actually sort of you know in a different language because ourselves especially if you are not a doctor you cannot interpret these sounds on the front you cannot even listen to them yourself because it's really difficult. — So these sounds are being captured through the stethoscope and interpreted and that based on those sounds usually it helps you together with the story to guide you towards what do you want to do further and where do you get to your treatment plan. Um and I think if you

compare sound a little bit with radiology is that radiology already developed a lot. Um so if you're thinking about more the conventional X-rays you know they developed into CT scans and now there's also MRI scans and those are being continued to develop which means what before you were not able to see on the X-ray. Right now you're being able to see way better with different methods. sound was the same. But right now, we're still using a very conventional method because our ears are limited in the sounds that we can hear and it's still a very subjective way of interpreting these sounds. Uh, and I think a big example of that is when I went to my

co-workers and we recorded some sounds, lung sounds, and we asked them to write down what they heard. Everybody writes down something a little bit different because it's really difficult to put down in words what you hear. So usually the benefit is is you as a doctor if you listen once it's good to listen at the end of day because you already heard it before you can compare. — Yeah. — But if somebody else is wants to listen you know it's a little bit difficult to explain what you heard before and if it's better or it's worse or it changed during the time. And I think that is one of the things by creating this solution

you can tackle because you can track in time you can take out the subjective part of it. — Yeah. Um, and the other thing is you can continue to develop because our ears I think are limited and I think by being able to capture sound in a better way. You can start to as with radiology you

can see more, you can hear more. — Interesting. And so the idea was really to kind of like rethink what a stethostocope would be and you know how did you go into the thinking of you know what would be the what would become the solution and no ku this stethoscope that you guys launched that we can talk about. Well, I mean the first idea was not actually the KU which is uh our first product which is the digit stethoscope. Actually the first idea was because I work in pediatrics. I see so many patients with asthma. Um and I really

got fired up because I thought it's so unfair. These young children usually cannot um already they they cannot explain how they're feeling or sometimes they don't even recognize their symptoms. And for a parent it's very difficult to you know to capture these symptoms as well. And I see the tendency especially in the US a lot of parents are buying stethoscopes themselves trying to listen or a measurements to measure the oxygenation level in their blood you know to get a little bit of a grip on what's happening and if you need to go to the doctor yes or no which is very difficult to to assess and that is

where I thought okay we can make a difference because this interpretation of these bodily sounds which is very difficult for people that are not trained we can give them the power to do that. And I think that's very valuable. One, it's very valuable because I think children that have this disease probably will have this dis this disease the rest of their lives. If you can teach them better how to recognize their sounds because they get a feedback because if when you're playing, you're playing. I mean, even I I also have asthma. I can also just continue and just ignore my symptoms until somebody tells you, "Hey, I I think you are having some symptoms."

I'm like, "Oh my gosh, yes, I do." So imagine a kid that has like zero attention, I think more attention than a, you know, than a six-year-old. — And if you get this feedback, hey, you sound like you are short of breath, you know, the measurements are giving us some signals that you're short of breath that you start to get this feedback. So you start to recognize your symptoms better. One thing that you can do is start you can start treating it earlier because you recognize it earlier. And if you treat it earlier, we see that the escalation of the asthma is less less severe. So I really think that by

treating earlier, we can uh decrease the hospitalization of a lot of children and the escalation of the asthma attack what they can have in that moment. And we see in children that have asthma, they tend to uh skip school more often because they are sick. And because of skipping school, they also in the end if you look at big groups, they um have a lower education. — Yeah. — Because of this like long. — So I is that you can really if you change a life of a young child, you change the whole perspective on the adulthood. You know, you can really make a difference there. So that's where I

was really fired up because I think we can really make a difference there and we can open up this skill of listening to your own body, translating the sounds of your body so you can cope with it better, you can take your medication in time, you can get feedback on how you're taking your medication, all those things. So that was our first idea. — Super interesting. And so how did this materialize into, you know, the the current product that you guys pushed it? Just to, you know, for people who haven't seen it, it's a it's kind of like of a how to say like a very quite thin silender — that, you know, you can just like apply

as a as a standard steoscope. Yeah, you can see it on the video. So, it's quite portable. — And yeah, how how did you come, you know, with um how did you design basically the solution based on that initial inspiration? — Yeah, I think there were multiple things that made us pivot from this idea. It doesn't mean that we're not going to uh we are continuing to develop continuous oscultation but we are we got first with the geko first of all is because um why

the the first step to open this up to patients and parents while doctors are not very familiar with this type of oscultation and the adoption then we think might not be as good because we want to build this with doctors with patients So it will be accepted. So not if you are a parent who you have this. So the doctor is going to be like yeah but you know I don't know what this device is. I don't know what you're talking about. — We would like this to be a collaboration a teamwork that this is something that will help parents but it will also help the the doctors. It's not going to give

them an overload of patients unnecessarily but it's going to be really uh in a very good workflow. So we thought I think we need to first prepare also doctors to know how digital sound works and know the potential of digital sound before we're going to be able to also soon open up this to patients as well. Um so I think that was one of the things that made us uh pivot. The other thing is also the continuous oscultation needs more um more work to be able to do this continuously intermittently as with a stethoscope is easier. So it's the easier first step to achieve and unfortunately also if you're looking at

uh startups um also uh trying to gather the you know the money for your startup pediatrics is not something that a lot of people think about in investing — unfortunately you know um and you can also see that if you're looking at the whole hospital if you're looking about innovation usually it starts within adult groups and then — yeah So slowly leaks through to the pediatric part. So it's not the first thing that is very innovative. It's not the first thing that people think about investing in. They're thinking more about adults, you know. So um that that was also one of the parts that combined that we thought okay let's first develop

something that the doctor feels comfortable with develop to together with our uh colleagues and then if they trust this and they also de develop this with us we're going to continue to develop to also open this up for patients and then it's going to be really um you know synchronized let's say because they're going to be able to really talk to each other and know what what we were working with. — Interesting. And um and so in terms of how you know what would be the what would be like the the best solution or what this device could do, how did you you know approach it in terms of you

know what let's say what sound you know quality you would need from it, what features you would like what are the functionalities how do you can because there's the like there are different aspects of it. There's the I guess the you know recording of sounds, processing of sounds. There's the ergonomics of it because I think you can also you know just move like kind of like doing this circular movement. You can do you know for example adjusting the volume like there's a lot of things that go into it that kind of like really change the the standard way of using steoscopes. Um, so I wanted to, you know, hear your

thoughts about how you, you know, around the design of the the of the device, how you guys, you know, came up with with that solution in particular. — Yeah, I'm really excited about this question because I think if you're looking at us in the hospital, like we're a little bit underserved in user experience, you know, — it's a nice return. — It's like I open the door of the hospital and I enter a completely different world. Uh I mean it has not been long ago that I still were we were still faxing things. We walk around with pages you know the evolution into more

modern work way you know it's it's just slower. — Yeah. — So we are used to work with clunky devices that tend not to work very well. So this was one of our top priorities to make this a very userfriendly device that basically you know how it is with your phone your iPhone that basically a child opens it and it's intuitive just start and you get it you don't have to ring a booklet you just it's intuitive so that's something that we were aiming for a lot with uh with a stethoscope so you don't need a lot of use of your phone you can just with gesture control you can uh operate ate your KU so your

digital stethoscope as you said you can twist it as a as a radio knob to put it louder and put it softer you can tap on it to record so all those things are very intuitive and it um gives you feedback through light so it tells you it gives you feedback of when it's lowing battery or when it's recording or you know all those things it gives you visual feedback as well um also our app is very much built on intuitive so not very complic licated, easy to go through. Um and um so that was one of

our top priorities too. Um and uh yes, the functionalities of what it has. I think for us it's really important to track in time. As I told you before with the a traditional stethoscope, we cannot do that. And I think if you're changing shifts and you have a patient that is admitted, it's really important to be able to go back to the sounds to be able to compare a little bit better. Um that is one of the things that you can do because you can track in time. Now you take a little bit the subjectiveness out of it because more people can listen to it. We also have AI. So the AI can also tell you

what is being heard in a more objective type of way. Um and then if you are having doubts, you can still send it to a co-orker or your supervisor or somebody else to listen to with you um to evaluate the situation. And as well, if you have some interns that are walking with you, they can listen simultaneously with you. They just scan your QR code and they connect their AirPods or their other headphones with it and they can listen at the same time. Um, so those things really for me are things that with a traditional stethoscope I still miss. And also one of the things it's wireless so you can

um even if a mother holds it or a father holds it on the chest of their child that is scared is crying and you just stand in the corner of the room minding your own business you can still listen to the sounds in that moment because you know you you can create this type of distance and if you're thinking already a while back but COVID and it's not just COVID but if you are autonic patients they tend to have some type of viral diseases you don't want them to spread said with a stethoscope you're on a distance of I think I mean it's like 40 cm I think that the tube is with the

stethoscope you can keep a little bit of a better distance as well um and also you don't have the tube that you're wearing around your neck and you take all this uh you know bacteria or viruses that you could — because a stethoscope unfortunately is one of the devices that is actually the cause of transmitting — okay — diseases from patient to patient because it's the device we try to clean it as good as we can but it has creases is you know it's it's still difficult to tackle that problem. — Mhm. Super interesting. You mentioned like the use of AI to I guess it's to ori it doesn't do diagnosis on its own

right. So it's more like indicating maybe consider you know asthma could be one or consider I don't know arythmia like can you tell us a bit about what's the level of support it it brings? Yeah. So our AI for the sounds are still going through the uh FDA route. So that is still something that needs to be fulfilled. The KO the device itself is already FDA cleared. Um so what it gives you uh is if you're listening to lungs, let's say it can tell you if there are crackles uh or if there's wheezing, you still as a doctor have to think about the story, what fits with these sounds and what you know what your next step is

going to be. But it's going to be helping you in interpreting the sounds that you're hearing. Uh especially also with the heart murmurss and I do not think that this device is specifically to um replace specialists in a way of I

don't think that if you are a pediatric cardiologist or a cardiologist that the AI is something um that would make a world of a difference because we see that the AI is as good as a specialist. But if you're thinking about a general practitioner or somebody that has less exposure to these pathological sounds and actually for them it's way more difficult to distinguish those because the cardiologists already get filtered patients that are filtered by the general practitioner. The general practitioner gets everything. I think is one of the most difficult jobs you can have because you really you have to distinguish is this something that is severe does it need to go to a

specialist or it's not severe and there I think it really can be of added value and also if you're thinking about um the first four years of children that they are being examined as well if they have a murmur yes or no it makes a difference if it's a pathological murmur or a non-pathological murmur these children often have a non-pathological murmur — yeah But all of them are being sent to the pediatric cardiologist. So one of our aims is as well thinking about the future of health care increased amount of patients and decreased actually nurses healthcare providers um to decrease the load of patients that are coming to the hospital that are that is

unnecessary. that is from the perspective of healthcare I think because we want to put the right patients in the right place to be able to also give them easy and fast access to the hospital um but also if you're thinking about being a parent and your child has a murmur and you need to go to the pediatric cardiologist it takes a few weeks to get there I am seeing parents of kids that are let's say 12 years old and then they still see but he or she had a murmur when they were know 2 months old. So it is something that even though it was nothing severe, it is something that

does create awareness and some type of worry. And if you can already distinguish in that moment it's a nonpathological murmur. You don't have to go to the pediatric cardiologist. You know you um they do not have to have that visit. They do not have that worry. So you are changing a little bit the flow and the workflow of uh of of the hospital. — Yeah. uh and I think that is something that we are really trying to achieve to put the right patient in the right place in the right moment as well. — That's very interesting you know you were mentioning so there's like two sides that I understand. So one side is

like on the in terms of like educating you know both healthare professionals and patients. So on one side you have you know use you can use a solution to you know have I mean as you mentioned like more timely tracking of the different cases you can share that between practitioners like there's a lot that comes into you know yeah improving you know the the workflow but also like you know how people yeah manage the patients and also share you know knowledge about each other and on the patient side yeah I mean that's a way people can just you If you don't want to wait until you see someone then you can already get some

information by just using the device. I wanted to ask on the patient side like can we just buy the product as it is like does it need to go through any referral route or it can just be bought like a standard device? — Yeah, for right now it's uh cleared as a medical device. is not an over-the-counter. Um, but we are looking into getting it for over the counter, but we do think that an over-the-counter that a patient would like to use might want a little bit of a different user experience and then doctor side. So, we do have to see, you know, how we're going to adjust that uh or if the same uh, you know, UX UI is

appropriate, then that could be as well. But those things we still have to distinguish for right now is for the healthcare professionals. Um but we are aiming towards it to be proved as well for over the counter. — Super. And so at the moment the the indications you focus on are pediatrics. Um is it also like you know cardio metabolic to some extent? Are you also looking into like other indications and you know to the extent you can you can share? — Yeah. Oh, I mean I always pull everything towards the pediatrics, but this is definitely not just for pediatrics because there's a lot of adults with asthma. There's a lot of

adults with COPD. The lung diseases are really big, you know, that could have great use of this. Um, so, uh, yes,

there's and we also get a lot of people asking us questions, could I also use it for, you know, the sound of swallowing? there's a specialist uh that are involved in that. Uh yes, of course, but those are smaller groups. So those are the things that we also have to focus at. But we can gradually you know uh get ourselves involved in different types of sound that can be captured and also uh to the extent of how much we can actually um with the help of AI um give more information um because I think we can still uh improve all the AI um

powers that we're having right now. — Super. I was just you know taking a look at the website and I see you know there's so if you go on labyhaul.com you will see KU and then you can you know see everything there's like actually a very very nice website um showcasing the device — I see that — better go to the ku.com because that that's actually the website that we're using now mostly — okay because my health — my point was to say like because there's also like something called ELO and Lapsy air that you know with brackets coming soon so yeah I guess I don't know if you can you know talk about it yet or if

It's more something for Yeah. in the future. — No, definitely. I mean, I think that is uh as I said before is the continuous oscultation is something that was actually our original idea. Right now we have intermittent uh but we have a pipeline. We want to go towards continuous oscultation. Um one of the things is for lung sounds, the other thing is for during the pregnancy. Um and that is one of the things that we are really also I think we can really make a big difference there um of being able if you're thinking about high-risisk pregnancies at first to be able to track them more continuously instead of being um uh dependent on the

doctor's office that you have to go there um and you can only get uh a CTG which is intermittent. It's maybe half hour, sometimes in an hour, h and then nothing. And then again, you're going to have a short period. And those are just little snippets to see how your baby's doing. Then you hope that this is, you know, it gives you an indication how it's going. — But, you know, whenever you have a bad CTG, you're already a little bit late. So if you can actually track better in time and at home and more in a comfortable space, this could be really of added value to be able to get women to the hospital

when they need to get to the hospital while they are maybe not even aware that something is going on or the other way around. If you are already very worried uh that you can get some feedback, okay, the heartbeat of the baby is fine uh and I do not have to worry that much. you know you can get that feedback as well from uh from the continuous oscultation. So that is also one of of the things that is on our pipeline if you're thinking about continuous oscultation that we can do with the same hardware because that's I think if you're looking at the labs website what we are doing is

we have a patented hardware uh and that hardware is the one that connected with software we can actually do a lot of different things — um and we can keep expanding uh in the potential of using it in different fields of medicine. — Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the idea is not to have like a device for for pediatrics, a device for, you know, inch indication, but it's more like to build on the platform and, you know, open. — Yeah. And it might have a little bit of a different shape to make it more easier to wear, you know, those type of things. But, uh, you know, the core technology,

uh, is, you know, is already what we have. — Super cool. I had a question actually on the team. So, you mentioned, you know, we talked about uh, your husband Jonathan. Was he in the healthcare in the past or like? — Yes. — Yes. he was actually. Yeah. So, he's also a medical doctor. — He's also a medical doctor. Yeah. — And how how big is the team at the moment? — Oh, I think we have about 25 people right now if I say correctly. Yeah. We just uh we actually just put out some vacancies and we hired some new people. So, it's changing right now. Yeah. — Very cool. Very cool.

Um, you know, I'm keeping an eye on the time and I'm I'm conscious we also have the the recurring questions. I wanted to ask you, you know, going kind of like closing the loop on what we discussed at the beginning, um, you know, being, you know, a mother, a health tech startup co-founder, um, a physician, how how do

you organize, you know, your your life to like stay on top of things and you also maintain your energy levels? I'm also like very thankful that you know you still managed to you know find some time to to do these types of activities or like podcast recordings. So yeah, I just wanted to ask you — controlled chaos. I think that's that's the best answer I can give you. I think I get this question a lot and I find it interesting because I guess it seems from the outside that it's all you know very slick, very organized. But I think as many parents, you know, I don't think I'm an exception in this. You just you

have to be flexible. So whatever comes your way, you know, in that moment, you'll find the solution. Um, so, you know, it's it's I think we manage pretty well, but that doesn't mean that, you know, I have the occasion of, oh my gosh, my daughter had sports day and I didn't dress her in the real, you know, those type of uh things that just happen. And organiz like a yeah organized chaos

— sounds simple. Um cool. So you know I wanted to ask you know what are the some of the resources that you know you would recommend us to to check out um you know to know more about you know the field in which you work. So you know everything around you know use of sounds in healthcare and medicine maybe some specific applications of it um for some of the indications we discussed um you know so like no books publications website is there anything you you wanted to share — yeah I I think I would um one of um the

books that I would advise is by Anthony Chang um I think he's a great example in this and he wrote the book intelligence-based medicine Um, and I think that is one of the things that I would really advise people that are viewing or listening or you even to read that book. Um I think he's uh really a

um a voice in in healthcare and in AI and the digital atmosphere and and we also I actually had the opportunity to write an article together with him and also with Hansa Barava — uh which is called promises and pitfalls uh clinical applications of artificial intelligence which is — towards the pediatric part. So that would also be one of the things that uh will be is a very nice breed. — Super. And I'll put the link to the the article in in the show notes. Anton is he so he's a doctor as well. — Yes. — Super. Yeah. I never heard the name so I'll look into it and also put the the

link to the book in the show notes. Can you share with us you know you know like an anecdote from your work um at health maybe related to to your device. Kool um you that made you realize the impact that you were having you know on people's lives either you know healthare professionals or or patients uh I mean I think the cake itself is not you know we have it out to the beta testers we it's not in the hands of patients right now yet um I do you know

there's a couple of things uh with the cakewood itself I mean my husband CEO he actually was listening uh or let one of the other colleagues doctors listen to his heart and that's where he actually discovered that he had a murmur which was in a cab that they were driving. They were using the active noise cancellations because we have active noise cancellation and he never knew that he had a murmur and this was the moment that he actually discovered because the sound was so great that he nonpathological but he has a murmur. Um but uh other than the ku we also had our first prototype of ELO uh which is the

continuous oscultation during pregnancy. Uh and we actually had this first prototype while I was pregnant of my third daughter. Uh and I could hear her heartbeat which for me it was such a magical thing to be able to hear. Um I do think that in that last pregnancy because in that last pregnancy I was uh still I was working in the clinic. I was working in the ward. I was working on the NICU uh which I was every day confronted with women that came. They didn't have any fetal movements and they had a bad CDG and they had a baby born with a lot of complications. And at the end of the day I was thinking

that because you're so busy I did not feel my own baby move. And this is I think something that really sparked my idea of okay you know it's not how it has been many years ago that when you're pregnant you know women are at home and they can sit down and they can feel the baby. We are working. — Yeah. And when we are working it means that we are also very distracted and that means that we are not completely aware of when the baby is kicking or you know and me not knowing if she was still there kicking and being live um really made me worried a lot because I was confronted

with these women coming in with basically the same symptom and it's so difficult if you're working to uh realize if your baby is still moving. correctly yes or no. So by having the first prototype of the ELO and to know that everything was fine is really something that gives you this reassurance because I knew that I was busy but I cannot you know say with a

100% reassurance that nothing is wrong in that moment. So I think by having this first prototype of the ELO and being able to listen to a heartbeat by myself for this first time, it was really a magical moment for me. — Really nice. You know, I was also thinking like, you know, even if you're not working, you're just in today's world, it's I guess it's hard to be

fully, you know, aware of, you know, yourself and, you know, how everything is going on inside of you. Um, so yeah, that's that's a very yeah, super inspiring um story. You know, I was I wanted to ask you the form factor of ELO, is it very similar to Kauru or is it something you continuously, you know, wear on yourself? Yeah, I think the form factor we still haven't completely decided on it yet because I think we have some ideas, but before we're going to really uh decide on how it's going to look like, we want to have a lot of women that are pregnant to think with us what is the best way to wear this. Yeah.

— What is the most convenient way to wear this? Do you want to wear it constantly or do you want to have just you know when you come home to or when you have a break to you know be able to monitor in that moment. So I think those things are still things that we need to crystallize into what is the best and most convenient way to do this but we do have some ideas set for this already. — Super. So look forward to seeing how it comes up. Um, last question was,

you know, if you would recommend a fellow, you know, healthcare innovator as a potential guest for the show, um, who would that be and why would you recommend her or or him? — Uh, I think I would really strongly recommend you uh, Gita Nayar. She's also a fellow doctor. Um, and I think she's

so uh such a change maker. Um, I think she's a powerful woman. Um, I learned a lot from her. Every time I hear her speak, I admire her a lot and she motivates me a lot. Um, so I really think that she is really a voice that needs to be heard by more more people. She's already a speaker on multiple events of course. Uh, but I do think that she would be a great addition for uh for for this type of interview. — Super. Then I'll I'll I'll look her up and, you know, if you can connect me to her some way, that would be definitely that would be great.

— And Diana, thank you so much for your time. I I think it was very interesting episode. I'm, you know, I'm lot of, you know, respect and admiration for what you and Jonathan are are doing. Um so I'm very glad we we had the time to to talk about that. Um and I wish you know much success um in you know every aspect of of your life and I'll you know follow closely the the next developments that you guys have with with Lepsi. — Thank you so much for I enjoyed this interview as well.

— Thanks for watching the episode. I hope you enjoyed it. You can subscribe by clicking on the podcast channel at the top right and watch another episode here at the bottom.